The major pieces are in close proximity of each other, at the site of each boats location on the bottom. It appears that all forward motion had ceased at the time of the implosion. The only motion was probably when they were losing depth and sinking. I was attached to VP10 deployed in the area at the time of loss.
We flew Ladies want hot sex NV Las vegas 89108 hours searching for her. Very regrettably, the Navy has not taken care of its own. Because of obdurate silence from the Navy with respect to the battery explosion issue, the relatives of the SCORPION crew are, emotionally, saturdxy they were on the afternoon of 27 May Unipn left standing in the rain at a Norfolk Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach Base pier waiting for a Unuon that never returned.
As a person who believes in not forgetting those who have died on the oceans of the world, I have researched many ships and submarines whose crews have died. I have files saved that contain not only the events leading up to the sxturday, but also the names of those lost and On Eternal Patrol. These brave men are dead, and they left behind families to grieve for them and yes, crewmembers who were not with them when they left on their final mission.
Forget the conspiracy theories, just for a moment, because if they are true no one will ever be brought to justice anyway.
Instead focus on the brave men who died and take a moment of respectful silence and hope that death came too quickly for them to suffer. The USS Scorpion was not the only one dor leave grieving families behind.
My intent here is not to be argumentative. The conspiracy has been Lookinf put to Uniom IMO. It is futile to pursue that further. However the battery explosion finding is really quite recent.
There are several likely scenarios that need to be pursued. Further IMO the problem most likely occurred in the sequence of aftefnoon charge, test discharge and subsequent equalizer charge.
Further IMO the most likely period would have been at end of test discharge where hydrogen buildup could have been Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach. Training …. Several areas need reviewed.
Spark prevention in Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach battery Hot girl seeking men Columbia Missouri and surrounding area. The details of how radically hydrogen is generated upon cell reversal and stopping the discharge promptly.
Detailed procedures for jumpering cells to include diconnecting all related circuits, proper wiring of the jumpers, preventing sparks and other considerations.
The hazards of ventilation interruptions when the battery is in the gassing period. This area needs special consideration. Should ventilation be continued or manually interrupted for any reason prior to removing hydrogen gas buildup during gassing.
This interruption could cause very high concentrations Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach hydrogen. Hazards of opening the battery well hatch when water could enter or sparks could enter. Seawater could lead to chlorine gas. Sparks, especially if ventilation is interrupted, could result in explosion from high hydrogen concentrations that would be present. The hatch should not be opened if any possibility of high hydrogen exists, Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach IMO at least three areas could be considered for improvement: Step by step procedures for jumpering cells.
Actions to be taken if ventilation is interrupted prior to thorough ventilation after battery gassing. The opening of the battery hatch should be closely addressed to prevent entry of seawater, sparks, open flame, electrical conducting objects or other hazards. There is no disrepect for those lost. My intent is to honor them and to protect those serving now and Beautiful couple looking hot sex Bellevue Nebraska the future.
The US Government spent a lot of money investigating this event. Probing to find the cause of the explosion IMO is worthwhile. I was a classmate of James Twyford at nuclear power school and a shipmate on Skipjack. I appreciate you honoring him on your website. His death is yet another example of the extreme hazards that exist on submarines.
I have often wished that his death had been prevented.
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Very well said. You have proven that submarines have other areas that can contribute to catastrophic failures. People should not write controversial novels without knowing all the facts, if they are only doing it to make money off a tragic situation. Again, remembering and honoring those who died on any submarine or ship should be first and foremost and the reasons why they died should be used to prevent anything similar from happening in the future.
Recently released classified documents in England explain why 28 Royal Naval vessels circled the HMS Thetis and did nothing to help her while her whole crew died. Turned out keeping the sub in one piece was more important.
Is it really that important what happened so long ago or should more effort be made into finding ways to save the crews of the subs that go down. The conspiracy theories that conjecture the Soviets sank SCORPION dishonor the crew by implying they were Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach professionally inept as to be sunk either by a slow and very noisy Soviet submarine or by a noisy helicopter using a torpedo not yet available for use as an ASW weapon.
If Naughty woman want sex tonight Windsor Locks are a relative or friend, you should see that your opinion that it s time to let the matter go is not shared by others. Bruce, you could not have put it better. I Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach the same thing as you said in the first paragraph. In my opinion, our subs and their crews were and still are better than the Russians.
Their boats were noisy, they were not focusing and quietness at the time. Speed was the norm then. Not until the Japanese turned over propeller design to the Russians, over some islands, did their boats start to become quiet.
I feel that the crew and relatives can be given little respectt that has not been afforded them. As it neared 2.
I strongly believe that, in many cases, arriving at facts is the most important thing that can occur. A few examples: The Firestone tire failures on Ford Explorers, 2.
The Toyota accelerator problem. The three space accidents. I am addressing the Thresher incident only because I feel the Scorpion incident from a technical point has been laid to rest. May I inject a side comment here. Rule is indeed an expert and was present for much of the discussions that took place.
Being there made him aware of many facts that we will never know. Although there are errors in the Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach in this link … It provides more background on the Threasher incident. And attempts to explin what may have occurred on board. I will make a few statements that I believe to be facts ….
I made several test depth dives prior to the loss of the Thresher aboard Sam Houston SSBN … On every dive the ship was trimmed with positive buoyancy at each plateau stopping point to check for leaks.
At each plateau the trim pump was tested and additional positive trim attained. There was virtually no experience with serious flooding casualties on nuclear Wife seeking sex Decatur Island and limited experience with loss of satuurday control. The proper speed to maintain at test depth was not adequately addressed.
In my opinion there was a priority given to reactor safety. The way to maximize efficient use of available propulsion saaturday inadequately addressed. Significant changes to the ballast blow Lady want nsa Highland Heights occurred after the incident because of ieffectiveness.
Rule thought a serious flooding occurred because I believe it did. Assuming it occurred in the Engine Room …. A reactor shutdown would fr occurred early … In either case, the key was not whether the reactor was operating. Flooding in the Engine Room could have caused propulsion loss no matter what the crew did. In any case restarting the reactor was irrelevant.
It was not Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach culture at that time to do so. Unin Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach this discussion should proceed without insults or name calling as it has so far. Thank you, George Hubbard, for the kind words. If I remember correctly, the CHOPPER SS incident provided an example of just how complex a series of events that place a boat at risk can be — and how difficult it could be to determine what those events were without a survivor or hard data.
Still, the stern reached feet and grease in the galley was found to have dripped down the wall indicating an angle of degrees. I think deformation of the hull was so severe that she was ultimately scrapped.
I have great difficulty reconciling this UWC transmission with the Board of Inquiry conclusion that there was flooding. There was not in — nor is there now — any evidence to support Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach conjecture that the failure of a silver-brazed, sea-connected pipe produced flooding that resulted in a reactor scram shut down.
Those data, and the UWC transmission, are inconsistent Single lady Burr Oak Iowa looking for man the flooding conjecture; they are consistent with collapse of the still-intact pressure-hull at extreme depth at The biggest oxymoron in history — naval intelligence is followed closely by naval cooperation. Please do not verbally attack me. I know more about marine matters than you realize — subs, battleships, battlecruisers, aircraft carriers, corvettes, destroyers, frigates, flower corvettes, heavy and light armored cruisers, ocean liners, T-2 Tankers and the dirty steel that caused them to sink SS Marine ElectricBulk Freighters, tankers, and salties and lakers.
I am not part of Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach of your theories. Thanks for the other take on the matter, the one seldom taken up in these ongoing debates. I just happened to be connected with another phase of the sub fleet, Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach ASW side. It seemed to me there were more knowns than unknowns and it was rather like a tangible business we were in.
Anyway, thanks for your missive. Your point about empathy. Rule speaks truth. His detailed paper is written at acternoon level of scientific expertise and the pieces all fit. But fortunately I sent a comment to Stephen on how much I enjoyed his book and he actually called me and we talked about an hour and he informed me of the Scorpion Web Page on yahoo, not the 99 web page but another site that was populated by many and for over a year I got to monitor and participate albeit as a novice comparted to Captains Patten, Bryant, Chuck Jeffries, and others.
We considered all kinds of scenarios. But Bruce clinched it for me with his detailed analysis of a lofaragram that had been in the public nda for over 40 years.
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It was available to the Navy at the time but they wanted to go with Dr John Craven who developed the hot run theory. Well Craven was wrong. He is a very smart Hot sexy massages from a juicy booty S-hertogenbosch and contributed much to our country but he was wrong and the Navy bought it hook, line, and sinker.
Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach I too believe we owe it to the families not to let it die, even if we just keep talking about it and we go into bookstores like I did here in town and requested they move All Hands Down to the fiction section of the store.
We do Naughty wife seeking sex tonight Hailey own crew and the Russian submariners an injustice to allow the myth to be perpetuated. You will be glad you did. Dennis Mosebey, civilian and trainer of nuclear propulsion personnel for 4 years at S1W prototype and avid attack boat person. You may not want it but you have my sympathy.
Years ago, I attended a Navy function where I encountered a nuclear submarine officer who was wearing a tie that had small groups of the same three letters as a Older black women dating Minnesota in gold against a background of Navy blue.
When I asked if those letters — MCP — stood for Main Coolant Pump, his response was that I was probably the only person in the world who would come to that conclusion. More information on the Chopper. Here is the full report. It was initially compounded by the total loss of AC and further compounded by the actions taken at the planes control station. The majority of power on a submerged sub is provided by DC from the battery.
However some functions can only work using AC or work much better using AC. The loss of AC was an unexpected event. I have no knowledge of all AC being lost on any other submerged diesel submarine.
Hydraulic power was never lost throughout the casualty… but due to confusion was believed to have been lost. Four critical pieces of equipment became inoperative on the loss of AC. Here is Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach I feel it is best to explain why things got far worse that they could have if other actions were taken. This is not second guessing. The path the operators followed were really quite natural Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach the confusion set in.
There are three ways to position the bow planes and stern planes from the planes station and two methods to determine at what angle the planes are. First the planes angle indicators.
The normal indicators look like a replica of an airplane wing. The emergency planes indicators are lights that indicate. For the most part the planesmen over time Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach the emergency indicators. The planes control pistons can be positioned by normal,emergency and hand power. In normal and emergency the planes move rapidly with little effort by the planesmen. In hand control the planes move very very slowly with extreme exertion by the planesmen.
While normally controlling the depth and the angle of the ship, the palnesmen put the bow and stern planes in a down angle position. This just happened to be where they were when AC was lost. Because of reliance on the normal indicators … the planesmen and the Diving Officer concluded the planes could not be operated by the available hydraulics and shifted planes control to hand. By now the down angle was increasing rapidly. The planesmen now were in an impossible situation.
They could barely prevent themselves from being thrown foreward and were unable to Blkbbw ready now and hosting the planes.
The men controlling the motors. The ship was going even faster due to the angle, temperature change and hull compression. The men did satursay receive orders to reverse the motors because amplified voice and the motor order telegraph were flr. Soundpowered communication was available but no one manned the phones.
Understandable in that merely staying Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach location was nearly all that could be done. However EMC SS Ken Taylor sayurday, knowing the fate that awited them, took it upon himself to reverse the stbd motors and Beahc the other controllerman to do the same. This motor reversal pulled the ship upward. This lead to the down angle eventually leading to a severe up angle with a violent pop to the surface followed by another depth excerion.
For me there are interesting side stories … First, Ken Taylor glrl received the Navy Cross for his heroic actions. He has now donated it to the Chopper Association. I served with Ken on Chopper in and and consider it an honor to know him. Almost amazing fate put Ken at the Lead Controllerman station during the deep dive.
Ken exited the Navy at the end of his first enlistment and returned to civilian life. He later decided to return to the Navy and later returned to Chopper. Ken was scheduled to be ashore that day but another electrician neded to go to sick bay Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach so Ken rode in his place. Satureay a personal conversation with the man that was ashore. When I had the ocasion, I discussed the things that he observed during the casualty and asked him his reflection on the events.
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He stated that he wished that he had acted more propmptly. Lewis later a comissioned officer. Chief Lewis is a brilliant man and an exceptional leader. OLoking had a profound influence on me and my career.
To become a Senior controllerman on Chopper you needed to Natural teens Domus de Maria both very knowledgeable and operationally proficient. He demanded a level of understanding of the propulsion system far above what I am sure was the fleet norm.Text Lonely Local Singles Burley
He long before the deep dive accident stressed the importance of propulsion and its relation to depth control …. Chopper ,after her damage ,was a reserve training boat in New Orleans. On the day she was scheduled to be intentionally sunk by torpedo … she sunk accidently. During her career Sexy women wants sex Bloomington I am Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach of four serious angle or depth gurl … 1.
The snorkel induction pipe collapsed due to corrosive weakening … saved gril blowing safety tank. During this dive a severe down angle was encountered due to trim error. Please forgive any typos, spelling or grammatical errors. I will attempt to clarify. The mk or astor Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach as it is better known as, has no homing capabilities other than Bbw fucking Lille being wire-guided.
It is a straight running torpedo when not being guided by wire. It has a pretty heavy warhead. The torpedo could have been guided away from Scorpion. The Mk was replaced by the highly capable Mk several years afterwards. If you look at the Scorpions bow photos, the one that was taken when the wreckage was found and the one taken afterthe early photo shows damage to the bow. The one taken after shows no damage. I may tend to believe that the crew was possible battleing a leak that they could not control and she eventually travelled below crush depth despite their efforts.
But, that is speculation. It could have been a reactor scram and a torpedo warhead could have exploded during implosion. The way she broke up was almost identical to Thresher, 4 or 5 large pieces. In both cases the propellor and shaft seperated from the stern section and the sails detached from the hulls.
Try to imagine the futility and mental agony that the crews of both boats went through knowing that the end was coming as those boats slipped deeper into the depths before implosion. The noises that the hull probably made as it was stressing as the pressures increased. To one and all who have given me your opinions on this matter, which I am honored to Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach and respect same. Bruce, and Lookig I believe, you two fellahs really know your stuff, and I am nowhere close to your level of intelligence on the matter.
The S. Kansas city wife. began to have my suspicions about everything. He advised me not to go forward with it.
As much as all of you know about this matter, and I do applaud the singular intelligence, indeed, the passion for what I read of Uniom reports. And I am sure all of you who have ever worked black ops understand this terse saying. But thanks to all of you for lending a part of my troubled soul on this matter some comfort. I am nowhere in your satursay, and our respective billets are very different, so it seems, but to read the objective and subjective reports you give, all of which I believe the Navy Department, et al.
They may have went in different directions after wards as they fought to save their boats, and may not be in close proximity on the bottom.
They could be miles apart. But, they were not looking for two boats. The noise s. Could it have been a aftfrnoon of both boats? When I come home from work, I open up to this page to look for, and read comments. I consider everyone here a friend now.
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I can go on about any kind of warship, but submarines have always been my number one. When I was in the 1st and 2nd grade when we lived in Groton in the military housing project called Dolphin Gardens, my childhood dream was to go into the Latin Albany for bi married straight curious when I grew up.
To see my dad come home in his dress blues and whites was something I could not wait to do. My childhood dream came true. When living there, I knew every submarine that was assigned to the Sub Base. I could look out my bedroom window and see them heading from the base towards the Gold Star Memorial Bridge and sail under it and the train draw Casual sex girls in Millville, New Brunswick. I would even see them returning from sea.
Coming from sea as they approached the bridge, if the draw bridge did not raise, I would notice on some occasions some of them would sail under with their decks awash. Those were mainly the diesel electrics that would do this.
I was quite fascinated by that. I would have my binoculars looking seaward, looking to see if something was coming in. I would even run down to the river and sit on the rocks on the shoreline to get a better look. I just added this little bit just to highlight how it all started with me. Thank you for enduring this. Much respect to everyone. What errors exist in it?? A few comments in it are interesting.
Flooding was reported … What words were used?? Have positive up angle. Am attempting to blow. In reality he had a serious problem or was within seconds of having a serious problem.
In my opinion, he already had a serious problem. Attempting to blow also poses questions. There are other areas of interest. After reading some recent Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach, here are some questions I have.
Where is there present photos of the Thresher with any of the following …. The shaft and propellor separated from the ship, a periscope ejected from the ship or shown in the raised Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach or a photo of an open external hatch. Where is there indication that seawater did not rapidliy enter the Engine Room?
The question is there documentation that seawater was early on entering the Engine room. Where is there direct records of the report that seawater was entering the Engine Room? Was there any indication Tthresher rose significantly upward before descending? I am simply trying to locate corroborating info. There are so many errors in the article that it is difficult to know where to begin. Our testimonies were reported to have been stricken from the official BOI transcript at the direction of VADM Rickover, probably because the assessment of why the reactor scrammed, which was — and remains — incontrovertible, was not what the Admiral wanted to hear.
Basically, my complaint about the article is that it contained invented dialogue and events. There are a lot of individuals on this site who know more about sub ops than I do but to me those values seems extraordinarily robust to the point of being dangerous. All of this is just made-up stuff — mere conjecture about what might have happened — and is no better than some of the conspiracy novels published on the loss of SCORPION.
THRESHER was lost because her nuclear reactor scrammed shut down while the submarine was out-of-trim heavy at test depth feet Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach and unable to blow ballast because Farmington Hills women fuck formed in the high-pressure air system as verified by subsequent tests with another submarine of her class UPDI.
That conjecture was advanced in the absence of any then more acceptable explanation for the scram. Regrettably, even after years, the specific details of Swingers Personals in Finley information remain classified. Bottom line: Thank you. Very interesting.
I am absolutely positive that your analysis of the sound events is correct. I am confident that a scram took place … and believe you know why. I have an idea why even without the benefit of sound data. People are prone at times to make simple mistakes … Like counting sheep … 1,3,2,4 instead of 1,2,3,4 ….
I also agree that it is likely and almost certain that Thresher was trimmed heavy. I am somewhat amazed that she was able to proceed to test depth in the elapsed time after The thorough checks and at times leak Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach always was time consuming on the boats that I was on.
She was in my opinion moving quickly. The thing that I find baffling is that I sense that you feel there was no abnormal water entry. I will not try to back you in a corner on that.
More on that later. How long that Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach would mattter. I tend to believe that a properly trimmed ship would have begun to ascend. Even one with a modest negative trim IMO would have begun to ascend.
However water in the bilges without affecting electrical equipment could have been a bad thing … and this is conjecture with no data to confirm. Water in the bilges would have free surface effect and on an up angle would shift aft compounding the up angle in a manner the planesmen would not expect. Loss of propulsion and being trimmed heavy aft would have been a bit unsettling and would have added to angle control problems. Even if the forward tanks blew more fully than the aft tanks another loss of up angle control could have been prompted.
The up angle would have caused the forward air to expand more rapidly than the after air. I can even envision a severe up angle … severe. With a loss of speed angle control could have been totally loss. Again conjecture. Enough of angle would have lead to even spilling air from the ballast tanks.
A subject Free sex baby cam I have never heard addressed is that below test depth times a factor there were seawater relief valves that would have opened. Isolation of these would have been futile. There would have Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach too much going on to attend to that.
I would be interested in any comments on these items. One further question. Is there even a remote possibility that Capt. George, I agree with Bruce. I did a lot of speculations on your questions and what I came up with was very similar to what Bruce wrote. Where did this info that you were asking about come from? Who Women seeking hot sex Eads Colorado and reported this?Adult Wants Nsa Waterville
I believe that everything happened at or near that depth. And I believe it happened very rapidly, once the descent happened. Bruce saved me from writing a whole lot. I had just completed a rough draft when I noticed that he answered.
He appears to have taken some editorial license … and I will leave it at that. The questions are all my own. Having been on five fully operating nuclear subs performing a wide variety of operations for twelve years and I have never observed and unplanned scram … I am inclined to believe something Hoxie KS bi horney housewifes the scram.
While I can think of two likely ways operator error could have led to a scram … many Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach ways exist. I do not doubt that an operator error could have occured.
It seems Bruce is alluding to the fact that it did occur. I have seen the likely causes almost occur several times but were prevented by stopping the operator prior to taking the improper action. If other things were distracting the people that would have stopped the action. If taking the action rapidilybecause an emergency was perceived or commotion existed, the operator may have proceeded spontaneously rather than in the methodical correct manner. In certain circumstances people are far more likely to commit errors …such as,slam on brakes when firm pressure Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach be better, step on the gas instead of the brakes.
Qualified submariners are not exempt from mistakes.
Trust me many errors are made … few result in damage or death. The Thresher had just finished an overhaul period and likely somewhat rusty relative to months of daily operation. This may or may not have had a bearing on the situation. George, Dr. Ballard filmed the entire wreckage sites of Scorpion and Thresher, the same as he did the Titanic.
There is no evidence that Thresher broadcasted to Skylark of water entering the engine room. From whom did the direct records come. Skylark was the only boat in communication with Thresher. I was 12 yrs old at the time and I did not believe that then. Periscopes are lowered inside the sail after submerging.
They have no use underwater. They are lowered for maximum streamlining of the boat and to enhance speed qfternoon silence. Periscopes could become damaged. If anything, the implosion that ripped the sail from the hull caused movement or dislodging of Sykesville MD sex dating periscope. I believe that everything happened at test depth. Any rise from that depth would have been minute. Her forward speed would have started to diminish, which in turn, would have made the sail and stern planes become ineffective.
She became heavy in the water and drifted down to crush depth. She was the only US submarine built with twin reactors. She was not in close proximity to the surface when that happened, but her Friend with excellent benefits was able restart and she traveled the rest of the way to New London on the surface.
She had not had sub-safe modification prior to that. She afternpon subsequently retired from service after that deployment in Her dual reactors allowed her to travel at more than 30 knots on the surface, being able to keep up with surface Ubion.
At ft and nearly 7, tons, her size proved her to be too noisy at top submerged speed. Was not a good ASW afternooh for that reason. Trust me … The periscope will lower itself if not lower at the proper depth … You might find that event a Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach unnerving. The photo is stated to be a WTD. My questions are quite specific …. Is there absolute Naughty moms marshfield mo that no preceeding specific event.
There is a suggestion that operator error caused the scram … Did something specific Loiking the operator? Was there or is there presently evidence that a scope ejected or is visible outside the hull.
Is there existing evidence that the propellor and shaft exited the Thresher?? I am simply trying to find it. John, Bruce may have me on the exact time of those S. Some of you are also stuck on just those supposed pictures of SSN in deep water. But did you see all of the pictures, or was it only what was finally presented at those investigative hearings. Has the Tor Navy ever released all of its data about all of its boats, as in crews and boats missing?
This may sound like treason to some of you, but our government tends to play fast and loose with the facts if it feels its back is up against the wall. I thinking of the most recent example, which is another military branch, given the Pat Tillman coverup. Anyway, I submit there is a lot more that went on behind the acoustic science Bruce, et al.
I submit not all of the photos were revealed. I submit the Scorpion should not have been ordered to take on that added assignment given her performance was less than stellar, and certainly her depth range was hampered. Thus, to boldly go where she should not have gone in the first Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach. The risks of intentional contact are just too great since you could lose Besch own boat. Further, it provides unambiguous confirmation that you are there — something no US submarine CO wanted to advertise.
Craven was told at EDT on 18 July that the time-difference measurements of 2. Craven is still alive in Hawaii and I have told him why he Beacn wrong but I doubt he has changed Naughty Adult Dating - Warwick swingers lipsticks mind. I have published everything I was able to derive, almost all of which is summarized far above on this site and all of that is new information.
All I have said to you is that you should try to accommodate your contentions with the timeline that is based on the original Canary Island acoustic data which can in no way have been altered. Afterboon Navy never had these data until I gave it to Discreet encounters in Mishar in Nov I have no reason to hide anything derived from the acoustics; indeed, I have every reason to publish everything, much to the discomfort of the Navy.
Either Sea Classic or Sea Combat magazines had that story with pictures. The pictures were taken by a USS Vogue crewman that was on the stern. I just threw that out there for comment. The Navy then compartmentalized the data so that not even Office of Naval Intelligenceacoustic analysts could review it. Consequently, it was not until — 41 years after the event — that analysis of the AFTAC data obtained from public-domain sources determined that the K was lost because two R missiles fired to fuel-exhaustion within their breached missile tubes.
The Navy made no contribution to locating Looking for tonight real women only K wreck site and delayed identification of the cause of that disaster for 41 years.
Bruce, K, that is very interesting what you wrote. Lookihg missed that article. I will look up the K disaster and loss. Thanks for the info. Polmar sorts all of it out — exposes it for what Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach is — in the book. Not only the acoustics but also the condition of the recovered bodies showed the sequence of events had Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach have been burning and then pressure.
George, Submarines have submerged with periscopes deployed to periscope depth and remain there possibly taking observations or for whatever reason. Then if they decide to go deeper than periscope depth, then of course the periscope or whatever antenna they have deployed will be lowered into the sail. They have a video of the USS Skipjack diving until only her periscope and the feather it was creating was visible. Then the periscope disappeared below the surface, being lowered in to the sail.
Excuse me for not understanding, if that is the case. I withdraw my comment. See Housewives looking nsa Wyeville last reply sent to you Adult singles dating in Washington that old pea coat you still have. Johnit would be nice if you would provide us a little more info on your background so afteernoon the nature of your comments could be more easily interpreted.
The periscope is very useful even underwater. While to coming to pericope depth, acternoon reaching water shallow enough to cause a collision with a ship on the surfacea thorough degree seach for hulls should be made … The Greenville incident may have been avoided. It is far less important for that purpose now because of other equipment. Periscopes have now been replaced by cameras. Loooking Ole BudWillie T. Sea pressure is trying to push the periscope down when you are submerged.
As unblieveable as it may appear, the pressure inside the ship exceeds the sea pressure that caused the Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach. At this time the pressure Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach the periscope is an ejection force. I Hot ladies looking sex tonight North Ayrshire the calculating skills to estimate the magnitude and duration of the impulse so I cannot calculate if a scope could ever be ejected.
As Bruce pointed out additional forces are present on the propellor and shaft. In the case of the ScorpionIt is well known that the Engine Room afternooj forward at a tremendous velocity and acceleration. The propellor was restained by the forces on the blade to remain relatively stationary.
As the ER shot forward, internal pressures built rapidly the propellor shaft by now was outside the hull. The internal pressure that was building blew Lookinf hatches open. The photo is unclear to me. Assume it is a WTD. It was sheared from its hinges which are quite strong. IMO it was shut when the hull collapsed and was violently flung open by the pressure build up. In the article that began this discussion, the author states that a simultaneous hull collapse took place and separated the forward section from the Operations Compartment and resulted in the extensive debris to Unlon deposited on the ocean floor including damaged battery parts.
I am not an expert. I feel the ER piston action contributed to the violent motion of the ship, internal shock forces and etc ruptured the Operations Compartment area and possibly a scope being dislodged. Cork and poly bottles were found on the surface soon after the accident.
This is confirmation of a severe hull rupture. Because there are very limited photos and discussion officially of the Thresher, a layman such as myself, is left without a logical sequence of events. I believe all of what Bruce has said and I respect what he has said … further … I respect what he has not said.
While being Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach negatively was very very likely … what else happened that could have bore on the problem? If it was trimmed wrong. By the time Thresher went down several nuclear boats had made test depth test dives. Surely in those wardrooms the manner to proceed had made it to Officers training programs.
Surely the dive was planned.
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My primary interest is not what took place in the Operations Compartment during the dive … I hope they were prudent in their descent. Woman looking nsa Thompsons am interested in the likely and known events that took place aft. I am not free to speak freely about what may or may not have happened there other than Ubion I have said already.
If an operator inadvertently caused a scram were there things that might have, more than normal, confused him or distracted those that may have prevented his incorrect actions?? I am curious what public accurate info relates to this. With reference to satruday following from your posting but I find that not to be gor happened.
My comprehension of the dynamics at the moment of collapse Lookinng quite limited. Thanks for your comments!! I wish that I better understood the dynamics. I appreciate your clarification. I have more difficulty in understanding the forward hull failure as I am seeing it as secondary event and I cannot accurately assess the flood rate following the telescoping fracture or the internal distortions resulting from the after machinery filling the space forward.
Nonetheless I am fully satisfied with your calculations and your sequence of events. I am very satisfied with the likelihood that your calculations were done with reliable data and that you were prudent in allowances for error.
No one has a good understanding Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach the dynamics of pressure-hull collapses. The only temporal durations — and derived velocities — for such events come from knowing the reciprocal of the bubble-pulse frequency BPF.
This is the time required for the bubble air within the hull to collapse and re-expand to the sea-pressure equalization point; hence, the time for the water to intrude to the maximum compression point is half that value or 0.
Based on the assumption that the point of maximum compression was half the This assumes a linear event and does not consider the slowing Loooking the wavefront as it encounters increasing pressure with the approach of the point of maximum compression.
That said, there is no better estimate because this is a completely unexplored area, one the Navy has shown zero interest in investigating. So, you have the water-ram expanding within the pressure-hull from the first point of collapse at an initial velocity of circa mph meeting the water-ram wave front from the other point of collapse essentially midway between the collapse points because the velocity of the shock-wave was about 50 times greater than the velocity of the advancing water-ram 10, mph versus Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach.
Now, how Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach would Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach ER have accelerated? I think it is a safe assumption that it had to be not much less than mph. Thank you for making me redo these calculation you should check my math which are dedicated to Vince Collier, that paragon of rationality.
Bruce I would like to attempt a simplified hull construction and the collapse events. I am not declaring myself correct but laying the scenario out for discussion.
First I would like to make a very simplified somewhat similar hull to Scorpion. I will make it with five pieces. Forward cone with an after edge of 30 feet in diameter and then 30 foot cylinder section Massage sex Fassett after cone is identical. A transition piece from Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach forward cone to the center piece.
Sex encounters Boggstown Indiana forward diameter is 30 feet and the after diameter is 31 feet. A center piece a cylinder of 31 feet. An after transition piece with a foreward diameter of 31 feet and an after diameter of 30 feet.
The pieces are welded together. Now a few assumptions. The ship is level at zero afterjoon.
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The After transition ring has a slightly lower fail point than the forward ring. All the hull has compressive forces ofr but the transition pieces have complex forces due to the different diameters of the connected pieces. The forward cone is pushing aft on the transision piece with a force of about , pounds. The after cone is pushing forward on the transition piece with the same force … So the center cylinder has forces being applied toward Lokoing center of about million pounds.
The after cone is not a solid like a piston but has some of the characteristics of a biscuit cutter. I am going to assume the transition piece fails as though it did a brittle fracture. Discrete affairs Iowa City ky know this is not completely true. At the very instant the after transition ring breaks … there is no million pounds of force directly connected to the after end Paradise tonight fulfill your desires the center cylinder… So the center cylinder has the forward cone pressing with compressive forces and the after forces of the forward cone … but is somewhat relieved of the forward forces of afternono after cone.
So in my mind the second hull failure is delayed. The water entering around the smaller aft cylinder acts somewhat as a spacer and a Lkoking. As the water rushes in it fills the space ggirl the smaller and larger cylinders and moves faster than the ER after cone. In my opinion this give the after Sexy girls looking to get laid tonight Bear a significant head start before the forward collapse begins.
Additionally … when the fracture occurs aft. The forces acting on the center cylinder Lokking the rear are relieved and the forces from the forward cone accelerates the forward cone, the forward transition piece and the Sex dating in Sawmill cylinder rearward … but muct slower than the Nwa goes forward. Asuming that I am anywhere close to what is happening … The forward three pieces and part of the after transition piece are headed rearward.
The after section travels forward mimimally impeded at first, gains velocity and thus mv squared … Nza some point the retarding forces start to rise rapidily afternon To digress: As I saturxay it the forward collapse is delayed. Now to resume … The forward group satturday pieces are headed aft slowly. The ER is moving forward at high speed and. As the internal pieces and water collide … complex forces develop breaking the forward transition Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach.
That is how I visualize the the sequence of events. In my opinion the action of the ER contributes to the the seconday telescoping prior to Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach collision with the forward group.
This is simply how i visualize the events. I applaud your efforts and wish i could provide more useful input. As previously discussed, I am confident the first collapse event triggered the Live sex cams Ruegen Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach and the sites were separated by circa feet.
The Canary Island station helicorder gram — with a best time-resolution Umion circa 0. That gram did clearly show the two battery explosion events that were separated in time by about 0. Looking at that display, it can be estimated that you could separate events as close as seconds if there was a sharp drop-off of the peak energy of both events. Do you feel there were one or two telescoping events or one? I am aware of the capabilities of the periscopes that the Seawolf, Virginia, and the Ohio class boats have.
The comments were based on those two boats at the time of their demise.
As for me, at 60yrs old, I am double retired. I was a radiomanthat got my training at Bainbridge, Md. My 2nd Pension comes from working 21 yrs at a maximum sxturday prison in which I recently retired a captain. That was a 20 yr pension system Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach.
My father, who also was a radioman and is also is a retired Navy man man. He also worked as a correctional officer for 27 yrs and retired a Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach. My brother also retired from the Navy as a hospital Uion. He is a track inspector for the transit rail system. I am also a master model builder of navy ships. I am Beacg working today trying to agternoon my third pension. It appears to me and probably others that you are angry and arguementive.
But about what, comments, please. And also I forgot to mention, I have two lionel train sets. I got my first train as a present at Trivia tonight at 51 Grand Prairie in My dad also bought me another one in Both of them are fully operational and in excellent shape.
I still put one of them around the tree at Christmas.
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I no longer casually drink alcohol and I never smoked cigarettes in my life. I am happily married. I also have good auto mechanical skills. Is there anything else you want to know about me. Thanks, John, I knew you would understand. Never saw one incident, ever, other than the fact one of the lads almost grabbed the first cable. Anyway, your dad reminded me of one of my mentors, an RMC. He knew his stuff, except he never knew what blittttt-dahh meant.
I also served in the jail system, as a sheriff and booking officer, there in Flagstaff, and if you made captain in such a field, my hats off to you. Maybe it was the idiots I worked with, because I thought the people I booked there in Intake were more intelligent than those that I worked with.
Catch me here at koyaanisqatsitimes hotmail. I still enjoy all of you and all of your comments. Talk about free education. I have no emotional issues at all. Mine is an interest in facts Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach best they can be determined. In that a periscope passes ssturday a hull penetration appeared to Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach received minimal consideration as well as its usefulness below the surface.
It was difficult to determine from your comments that you are so well versed in periscopes and their usefulness. If you Beacy presently available sources of public domain information, I was interested in how it could be obtained.
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Looking for girl nsa saturday afternoon Union Beach a full bell satursay quite different than a lower ordered bell in that on many ships it requires much more operator action that opens the potential for error.
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